Investing in Precious Metals Feat: Patrick Yip

Dustin Steffey: 0:00

Hello chop nation Dustin Steffey here our partner over at Inferno performance has some great things going on currently Inferno performance is your number one destination for the most exclusive personal training in the world period. What you guys may not have known as Inferno is also a one stop shop for all of your apparel, supplements, training and meal prep needs. Currently right now on the supplement side, they're running a package sale for $100 you can get pre workout, recovery protein, and a multivitamin or if you want to step it up and step your game up, let's go to the $200 package where you get the pre workout recovery reds, greens, multivitamin, fat burner, digestive enzymes and protein please head on over to Inferno dot fit that's WWW dot Inferno dot fit and support my boy Dante Moke over there with all of your training and supplement needs.

Jaden Norvell: 1:12

Welcome to your top rated business entrepreneurship self development and smart investment podcast. This podcast is hosted by creator and founder Dr. Dustin Steffey and also hosted by coach, music producer and influencer yours truly Jaden rush Norville, we are blessed for many accolades such as being nominated for the People's Choice Award for Best Business Podcast, as well as raising over $5,000 last year for the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation as well as for the Boys and Girls Club, spending a global reach or podcasts in the top four downloads in four countries. Without further ado, welcome to chopping wood fire ladies and gentlemen, let's chop it up

Dustin Steffey: 1:53

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of chopping wood fire. You are joined with your host, Dustin Steffey I have some fun things in the works and in the coals that I want to announce real quick. First and foremost, if you guys haven't done so already, we did just release our first local small business episode. interview was with speakeasy tattoo company. So if you haven't viewed it yet, please take a look at it. Make sure to hit the little bell if you're on YouTube, and Comment, like and subscribe. Obviously, we're also on your favorite podcast platforms. So please pick a platform that you like and go today to view it and send us some comments. Also, our charities are cystic fibrosis and the Boys and Girls Club with cystic fibrosis. Imagine having a straw in your lungs and your breathing out of that straw. It's probably not going to feel very well. That's what it's like to have cystic fibrosis. It's a charity that's close to me close to Jaden close to this podcast. If you guys have any extra resources, please head on over to C F F dot o RG forward slash donate today. Also the Boys and Girls Club most of you are probably already aware of they help our children to develop to have that really one on one fun environment to be able to make friends to be able to play sports because they do sports as well, to be able to support our kids when we're working. They're an awesome organization. But as we know with this day and age, these organizations need help because inflation is very real. So if you do have spare resources and want to donate to Boys and Girls Club, please head on over to BGBC dot o RG forward slash donate and get your donations. And I think that's everything that we have to kind of bring out right now I've been pretty hush hush on the new things coming in. Because I want to surprise everyone as things are in the work works. Today starts our investment series because again, we are an entrepreneurship, self development and smart investment podcast. So we're gonna bring some investments to you we got a new topic coming up as far as Investing in Precious Metals. We have not discuss that yet. And I think that that's an important discussion. And who better to have than Patrick yet which he is on right now I am going to turn the reins over to him. So he can kind of introduce himself and have some fun. We wanted to change it up a little bit on you guys. So let's dive in

Patrick Yip: 4:50

it Dustin thanks again for having me on. So a lot of times I get the question like Why precious metals? How do you get involved in precious metals since it is kind of a niche industry? It's definitely not mainstream. So It all started back in 2008. I'm sure many of you guys will remember we had that financial crisis. So I had your typical portfolio of stocks and bonds, thought the world was great, everything's just was just fine. The financial crisis offers a hit and my portfolio got chopped in half. I then called my financial advisor and said, what happened? And I recall him saying something like, well, no one could have predicted that crash. So this got me into doing this deep dive into researching a lot of a lot of different economic systems got me into Austrian economics, and then ultimately precious metals. So in 2008, during that financial crisis, gold actually initially corrected with a stock market, but it ended up positive for the year. So fast forward in 2011, I joined APMEX. I'm now the Director of Business Development at APMEX and won gold, which is a subsidiary or subsidiary of AmEx, Amex, for those of you who don't know, is one of the largest online precious metals retailers in the US. The company has been in business for north of 20 years, we have done over 15 billion in lifetime sales. I've been with the company for about 12 years, I've had different roles across the company and merchandising, sales, project management marketplaces. And now business development. I also most recently began running one gold, which is online investment platform that allows customers to purchase like a vaulted position of gold, silver, and platinum. And one gold just as a data point has done over 900 million in transactions in its first four years of business. And then I was also involved in launching the first ever precious metals rewards credit card, and it's called the bullion card, and I should have one right here.

Dustin Steffey: 6:25

That's awesome that that's a nice quick hit right there. So a lot of lot of detail in that. I want to take it a step back, and kind of dive into precious metals. So like, if I'm thinking about it, and I'm, I'm almost 35, right? I'm thinking about like my grandfather's generation, because he would have gold bars silver, like actually in the safe, right? As liquid like funds to be able to invest or sell if we need some money, or whatever the case may be. You want to dive into that a little bit.

Patrick Yip: 7:03

Yeah, there's several different ways to own precious metals. One is is the physical, as you mentioned. So this is buying physical gold, silver, platinum palladium bars, rounds and coins, a lot of times people have older generations, like you mentioned, grandfather's grandfather's who have a coin collection, that's one way to buy it. And that's we do that through APMEX, where we sell you a physical precious metal for delivery. That's, that's one way. The second way is through like a vaulted platform, such as one gold. And we could get into one gold in a bit. But this is basically where you take a vaulted position. So you have gold, you have silver stored at a Brinks vault located in the US, Switzerland, Canada or the UK. A third way is an exchange traded funds, often the the GLD and SLV. I personally would not get into this stuff, but we could get into that. And then a fourth way is through mining shares. So these are these are companies that mined gold and silver out of the ground, which could give you a lot of upside, but it also has risks too as well.

Dustin Steffey: 7:57

All right, so we got a lot of a potpourri of options here. Yeah, with that being said, I'm familiar with the vaulted option. Because we deal a lot with cryptocurrency, which I know that's a sore topic right now, because Kryptos still down quite a bit, and people have lost quite a bit of money in it with government relations and the economy, even and inflation. But that's something that I know is an investment. So I've held steady, because I know it's going to pop back up at some point. What's your take on that?

Patrick Yip: 8:40

Kryptos are a difficult one, I look at it too. And in crypto is like I think the oldest crypto was around in 2007 2008. I think it's Bitcoin obviously has a 15 year history. I don't think it has enough data at this point. Maybe it goes 200,000 Maybe it goes higher. Maybe it also goes to zero, I don't know. It's just there's not a lot of data. We don't know what's going to happen in a long term inflationary, rising interest rate environment. If a major recession hits, we don't know how it's gonna react. I would say you know, it doesn't hurt to get in Kryptos. But I would say with any asset, whether it's Kryptos, whether it's gold, make sure you have the correct allocation. And the correct allocation is probably not zero, it's probably not 100 It depends on where you are in life, how much risk you take, and you look at you look at the probability to Okay, Kryptos let's say Bitcoins, I think a little over 20,000 Right now, and I haven't checked it in probably a couple days. But let's say it's over there, you know, with what's what do you think it will go to do you think it's gonna go 200 Okay, fine. You know, if it goes 200 Maybe you have 80,000 and upside 20,000 On the downside, you know, what are the probabilities? You look at it and you make the correct allocation?

Dustin Steffey: 9:48

Yeah, something that we preach here is do your research first, right with with any investment, it's still a gamble. It's still putting money into something where it could go up or or it could go down and crypto I think is very volatile. Whereas precious metals have been pretty steady for the most part, I would say right, where are we at for precious metals right now?

Patrick Yip: 10:12

You're about $23. For silver about 1900. For gold.

Dustin Steffey: 10:15

Yeah. So I remember when gold was 1000. So 1900. Now, that's a net 900 increase. So,

Patrick Yip: 10:22

yeah, I think I think too, that that's important to talk about, too, is is why people even get into precious metals too. And we could talk about that too. With with inflation if you want.

Dustin Steffey: 10:31

Yeah, let's dive into it. This is, this is good for people that want to invest right now.

Patrick Yip: 10:36

Okay. Yeah. So a lot of times when people hear gold, they just immediately close the doors. And I'm not interested, right. But let's, let's see what what history tells us with gold. So right now that one of the topics in the news is inflation, no matter where you go, you're hearing inflation, you go to the restaurants, you go into Target, you go to Costco, everything's higher, right? So we're about two years into the current inflationary cycle. So just back in January of 2021, inflation was only 1.4%. I'm sure many of you guys remember that. The Fed saying, hey, it's transitory. It's transitory what's been trend. It's hasn't fixed itself in two years already. So many people are feeling pinched. So the last time we had inflation at these levels was built way back into the 1970s in the 1960s. So let's see what happened back then, in the 1960s, we had an inflationary cycle, and it took the Fed nine years to resolve that cycle. And then fast forward to the 1970s, we had another inflationary cycle, it took the Fed five years to resolve this inflationary cycle. Okay, great. So what does that mean? So let's look at how various asset classes performed during that inflationary cycle. So let's say one option is to hold cash, you're not going to do anything, I only recommend holding cash for liquidity for buying opportunities, I don't recommend that you have most of the majority of your assets in cash. And the reason is, because inflation is going to erode away your savings. So five years of six and a half percent inflation compounded at six and a half percent is a current number given by the BLS. I think it's dramatically understated, but let's just use it right five years of six and a half percent inflation is going to erode about 30% of your purchasing power. So not the greatest outcome. If inflation lasts five years, let's say at less than nine years, like it did in the 1960s, nine years, compounded at six and a half percent, it's going to be about 45% of your wealth eroded away. So obviously not great there either. Okay, let's say, Okay, you agree, you don't want to hold cash, let's say you want to hold stocks, you're invested in s&p, and who knows if history is going to repeat, right? So in the 1960s, you had the s&p lose about 20%, over that nine year inflationary period. And in the 1960s, inflation was running at 12%. So not only did you lose nominal purchasing power, you lost inflation. And then in the 1970s, stocks did a little bit better, they were up about 4%, over that five years, but inflation hit almost 15%. So you may look like you're making money, but in fact, you're losing purchasing power. And then lastly, let's look at gold in the 1960s. From actually from 71, up to 74. Gold was pegged before 71. It went up from 35 to 200. And so you know, as 5x Move, there was a brief period around 74 and 75, where the Fed actually raised their interest rates above the inflation rate, which caused gold to crash from 200 to 100. And then obviously, they lost control of inflation again, in the 1970s. Gold rallied from 100 850. So an 8x move. So that's just what data says. Who knows if history will repeat, but if it does, it's likely to be very bullish for gold.

Dustin Steffey: 13:30

What about silver, what's the highest you've seen silver, silver has

Patrick Yip: 13:33

hit $50 in the 1980s, and it hit $50. Back in 2020. Right now, it's currently about 23 and change. It's also in modern times, and also hit a low of 12. Back in 2020, as well during that initial COVID crash in March. One thing I like to do and I mentioned it briefly on the bitcoin is is is you look at your risk and your reward. So Silver's at 23 Maybe it goes down to 12. Again, I mean, it's possible. So let's say you have $11 and the downside, it's also been at $50, twice in history. So maybe you got like almost, you know, almost $30 and upside so you got 11 On the downside, actually 27 and upside, you know, do you buy it? You know, hey, couldn't hurt to get in right now.

Dustin Steffey: 14:15

I'm one for diversifying investments, right. So if I'm investing in metals, I'm investing in a couple of different ones just to kind of see where it goes right?

Patrick Yip: 14:25

Yeah. And normally what happens in previous cycles too is you had gold initially start running up and then silver followed after gold maybe a couple months later and it often rallies to a bigger and faster extent than then gold so like it I think that might be interesting is maybe you get into gold when you start seeing gold rally, maybe sell some of your gold get into silver and then hope silver rallies like it does in the past and exceeds gold on a percentage basis.

Dustin Steffey: 14:53

And is it similar for Investing in Precious Metals as it is in crypto where you don't have to buy the whole night? 100 You can buy a percentage of it. Yeah, so

Patrick Yip: 15:03

that's where we came up with one gold. Because I guess the old way is, is you wanted to buy a gold coin a silver coin. Okay, silver coins, 23 bucks gold coins $1,900. Well, let's say you wanted to put $1,000 in, you're like, Well, I want to save $1,000 every month. But you know, $1,900, I could get a gold coin every other month. So we created back in 2018, we've created one gold. So APMEX, our company partner with Sprott a large alternative asset manager at a Canada with about 22 billion under management, basically a large investment management firm to come up with one gold. And one gold is it's a online investment platform that allows customers to buy sell and trade vaulted positions of precious metal. So a lot of people call it like the Robin Hood or Coinbase of precious metals. It's basically one of these new online investment platforms. That is super easy if you get started in a couple of minutes, and own gold. And what one gold does is we first start by having agreements with various vaulting companies around the world. So we have an agreement with Brinks. With Loomis with the Royal Canadian Mint and a lot of other partners around the world. We then source wholesale bars, so 400 ounce gold bars, 1000 ounce silver bars, these are the bars that you often see in like movie scenes that the big industrial bars, we then put place in in these breaks and Louis falls and then we make it available for customers to sell. And then you could buy as little as a point 001 ounce of gold point 001 ounce of silver. So if you had a couple of bucks, you could own gold. And prices are super attractive to since you typically own part of a larger bar. So instead of you actually having a gold eagle or gold Maple Leaf, you may have fractional ownership and a large 400 ounce gold bar. Gold is sold for as little as point 4% over spot or 40 basis points and silver is sold for as low as 1% over spot. All the metals regularly audited by a top five accounting firm, it's insured by Lloyds of London. And let's say you said hey, I want to take possession of my metal, let's say you want to put $500,000 into gold every single month. And when you have enough for that ounce of gold, you want to actually take your gold Eagle, you could swap your position at one gold and redeem it for any of the 25,000 product products available@apmex.com. And we'll ship it next day directly to your house.

Dustin Steffey: 17:09

So then it would be like my grandfather, I could have that actual physical asset in my safe. That's correct. And I think that's that's where a lot of people are these days is the ones that invest in crypto understand how crypto is but it's not a tangible asset. Like I don't have Bitcoin, like in my safe right now. It's it's digital. Yeah,

Patrick Yip: 17:34

and that's a that's a good point too. With with physical metals, there are pros and cons. Obviously, the thing that you mentioned, it's tangible, it's physical, it's off the grid, you can't hack, there's no way to hack your gold coin, if it's in the safe, unlike some of this new technology if you have, I mean, you hear a lot of these crypto exchanges too. And people are questioning whether they want to hold their Kryptos on the exchange because it's possible that it could get hacked, you never have to worry about that with physical gold. No one's ever gonna hack it, they can't hack a physical item. Taxes are self reported to I do recommend that you report your taxes. But some people choose to do what they don't want to do, is aesthetically pleasing to own too. So a lot of times people collect these things. If you ever held real gold, it's actually a very interesting feeling too. So gold is about 19 times heavier than water. So like you hold something that small, and you're like this is pretty heavy, like it's a lot denser than any other thing that most people hold. The biggest con about owning physical gold is a small stack quickly turns out large stacks. So everyone I've tell who get who wants to get into precious metals, they start with maybe a couple $1,000 Then it comes 10s of 1000s. And then maybe if you're fortunate enough, it becomes a six or seven figure some unfortunately, that's problem some it's not the greatest idea to have a million dollars in gold held in your house. I mean, we have people whose purchase I mean north of 50 million from us at APMEX. I mean that's up to them to decide where to store it. But all it takes is one guy breaking into your house with a gun and it doesn't matter what kind of security what kind of safe you have. It's gone right? And that's why we have other different ways to one gold is a great example. I do recommend and you alluded to it earlier, I recommend that you you spread around your risk diversify a little don't have all your eggs in one basket. And even if you decide to go in gold, don't have it all in physical don't have it all in one build spread it out a little bit.

Dustin Steffey: 19:20

Where's platinum not in pricing because you did bring up platinum as well.

Patrick Yip: 19:25

So platinum is around $1,000 an ounce, it is actually a low compared to gold woodware has been trading historically. I mean in let's say in the past, in the past, I would say maybe five or so years it has been a little bit misaligned from gold because typically platinum has always traded at a premium to gold. Now it's prepaid or trading at a deep discount. So gold's at 1900. Platinum is about 1000. So you do have people who are speculating that this ratio is essentially going to return back to normal where platinum is going to trade at a premium to gold and whether that that is gold going down to platinum going up or a combination of the both Have people are saying, Hey, maybe I get into platinum and see where this thing goes. But it relative to gold, it does look a little cheap.

Dustin Steffey: 20:08

See that interests me, that's probably where I would start my investment. And given where it was in history before now.

Patrick Yip: 20:15

Yeah, and there's people who have a lot of times, there's another thing called the Gold Silver ratio where people look at the price of gold divided by the price of silver. And this ratio has been as low as let's say about like 16, and has been as high as 120 in the last couple of years. And the thought there is when the ratio is high, it's you're getting more each ounce of gold is is worth more ounces of silver. So basically, silver is undervalued compared to gold when the ratio is high. And then when the ratio is low, gold's overvalued compared to silver. So a lot of times people trade this ratio, like I said, if it's high, it's currently about 80. To one people are saying this historically has been high, they're selling some of their gold buying silver, and then when the ratio goes lower, they'll swap it into gold.

Dustin Steffey: 20:59

Now they exchange that virtual, is that encrypted? Do you own the keys to that? Like, can you explain that a little bit? Because for my crypto and individuals, we have teas and safety nets and stuff for our investments? How does it work for the precious metal side?

Patrick Yip: 21:20

Yeah, so it's on all online through one gold, we did actually have basically a ledger, a blockchain ledger way back when we first launched, but then the person who is actually managing the ledger will actually charge us fees. So we ask a lot of our customers to say, Hey, do you like this ledger? Do you value it? Do you not value it? And then a lot of times, people said, Hey, I would rather pay a cheaper price and not have this ledger. And this is just related to one gold in our space, too. So a lot of times people trust, they trust that Max, who as I mentioned, is one of the largest online precious metals retailers in the world. They trust Sprott, who was one of the original founding partners, and they just said, You know what, that's that's sufficient. It's and my thought is like, if you have a bank account with Bank of America, Do You Trust Bank of America enough that your your, your checking account is going to be safe? Or Are you skeptical? And I know everyone has their debit? I see you smiling there I do. I think the banking system is a whole different discussion. But you know, maybe for that amount that you have in there, you trust it, and you trust the backing. And my thought too, is like, if you really don't trust it, we offer fiscal redemption to or we offer at max, you could always hold your gold in your house or in a safety deposit box, or wherever you should. So we like to have the solutions for all types of customers.

Dustin Steffey: 22:31

Yeah, it's funny, you bring out the banking question, because we addressed that earlier last year. And I don't believe in any of the banks because the banks take our money, and invest it to make money for themselves. And so I'm not I'm not a fan of that centralized model, per se.

Patrick Yip: 22:53

Yeah. To me, it's like, yeah, I'm not a fan of it, either. But But I, you have to keep your money somewhere. And I do have a checking account. I mean, that's the only thing I really have with a Bank of America. Everything else is spread out and other places, but I mean, it's, I'm skeptical about it, too, as well. Yeah, it

Dustin Steffey: 23:09

only takes one bad thing to happen. And then all of a sudden, oh, yeah. We don't know where your money is.

Patrick Yip: 23:14

Yeah, well, actually, it's the I think that and how it appears in the bank is technically not your money. It's the bank's money as soon as you deposit it, and and basically, they, they could do whatever you want, like they could loan it out, do whatever, it's no longer your money, you just have a claim at that point.

Dustin Steffey: 23:29

And that's a scary thing. And that's something that I really want to educate my listeners on, which is diversifying where your money is going, because you never know if it's gonna be there or not.

Patrick Yip: 23:41

Yeah, and I think it brings up a good point back to gold. If you look at currencies, for example, the US dollar since the pandemic, I think there's different stats out there, depending on what metric you're using, but about half the money in existence has been printed in the last couple of years since 2020. And to me, that's scary. Because if you're working, you're earning dollars, or euros or wherever you are in the world. And these central banks are now just printing it up. So you put hours into that your whatever you do, you make money and they just evaluate it because they just doubled the currency supply. Well, that's kind of scary. So like you want you want something that they cannot just print away, whether that's precious metals, real estate, something that cannot just be made out of nothing with a couple clicks.

Dustin Steffey: 24:27

So for you personally, I know you're diversified and invested in precious metals. Have you made a profit with this where you're comfortable or like how long? How long is the typical turnaround people would see on starting to see profitability?

Patrick Yip: 24:45

Yeah, I'm profitable. I started buying precious metals probably since 2008. After that financial crisis. Were as I mentioned, I lost quite a bit of my net worth and back in 2008 Gold was was a lot lower $800 an ounce. So I'm in I Personally, I'm staying in gold right now until the Fed gets inflation under control. And what's happened in the in the 1970s and 74, to 75. And in 1980, is when the Fed funds rate was higher than the inflation rate. And Paul Volcker was was the Fed chair back in the 1980s. And what he did was inflation was running at 14.8%, in the late 1970s. And he said, I'm going to tackle inflation, I'm going to raise the Fed funds rate to 20%. So he raised that 5% 500 basis points above the inflation rate. And then sure enough, what that caused, that caused a lot of assets to crash, everyone ran to the dollar, because they said, now if you get this massive yield, on the dollar, everything basically crashed, and the dollar was essentially saved back then. So where are we right now, we're at inflation, as at 6.5% is the latest number, the Fed funds rate is at 4.5%. I think they're going to increase interest interest rates today, probably 25 basis points. So let's say it, raise it to 4.75. I mean, inflation is not under control until, you know, maybe inflation goes down, which typically inflation gets sticky. And then the latest job reports was strong, which is not what the Fed wants to see, obviously, strong jobs report means people are employed people have money people are spending that's inflationary. So, you know, jobs report is is is strong, inflation is unlikely to go down. The second way that they could solve it is maybe the Fed funds rate gets increased to something near or above 6.5%? Well, there's still a long way from that. Or the third way is maybe a combination of both. But I mean, time will tell time will tell, time will tell. But if you just look at the past, inflation typically gets stickier. So like it's easy to reduce it from the nine to eight to seven. But then when you get from six to five to four, it's a lot harder to reduce that down.

Dustin Steffey: 26:43

So you judge based on current, so current is lower than back in the 70s and 80s. But it doesn't seem like it seems like we're worse off right now. In my opinion.

Patrick Yip: 26:56

Yeah, I think the Fed inflation rate or the BLS inflation rates are dramatically understated. Like, if you told someone Hey, inflation, six points at 6.5%, you're like, that's, that's not accurate. I mean, everywhere you go to target, you get gas, go to Costco, you do anything? And you're like, that's not six, six and a half percent. That's like, that's like 30%. That's 40%. I mean, depending on what you you get. But I mean, there's a whole bunch of data looking back that that says that the the numbers are kind of fudged these days. But, you know, basically, the high level takeaway is, is inflation is here, it's likely not going to be something that's easily resolved. In the next, let's say, couple months or a year or two.

Dustin Steffey: 27:36

I think my barometer is taken a look at the price of eggs. I know everybody laughs about that, but I'm paying 899 for a dozen eggs. And that was 399. A few years ago.

Patrick Yip: 27:49

Yeah. I mean, that's, that's a great example, too. So so in that case, inflation's over 100%. I mean, that's it's double. So so if I told you six and a half percent, you're like, yeah, that's that's not right.

Dustin Steffey: 28:00

That's where I have an issue. Right. And that's where a normal normal person would have an issue when we're looking at gas, eggs, milk, food in general. It's it's above that six and a half percent by a longshot.

Patrick Yip: 28:14

Yeah. So I think that brings it back to says like inflation is here. I mean, what what do you want to do? As we mentioned, stocks were down last year bonds were down last year. You know, what, where do you want to go? And we could get into the historical gold allocation too, if you want. what history tells us?

Dustin Steffey: 28:31

Yeah, I mean, more information, the better. This is research at this point.

Patrick Yip: 28:36

Sure. Yeah. So normally, if you ask your financial advisor, you know how you should allocate your portfolio, they'll say, Hey, you should probably have a combination of stocks and bonds. And the thought is, if you want to have higher risk, higher return, you do heavier stocks, if you want your lower risk, lower volatility, you do bonds, and then you know, it all works out. But like we mentioned, stocks and bonds were down, both down last year, so that portfolio didn't do much for you. So we looked at last 50 years of data. So I'm gonna look from about 71 went when gold was not pegged when gold was trading freely with the market up till let's say the last couple of years, and then looking at 10 year average returns to look at the proper or the right allocation or the best allocation that you could have with precious metals. Everyone's allocation should be different depending on your place in life. But this is just data this, obviously do your own research. But if you had a stock portfolio, you made an average of a 7% real return and a 5% standard deviation over a 10 year investment period. So I'm not penalizing stocks in 2008 bonds basically had a 5% return. So 200 basis points lower than your stock return, three 3% standard deviation, so also 200 basis points lower and your standard deviation. If you went 80% s&p 20% gold, so you got rid of the whole bond equation to you had a return of real return of 6.7% annually. So 30 basis points lower than your stock return, but you know Almost 200 basis points higher than your bond return, and a 2.7% standard deviation, so much lower, actually 30 basis points lower than your bond standard deviation. So you get all the upsides of stocks, and all the low volatility of bonds by doing 80% s&p 20% gold, but obviously, I'm gonna say everyone's allocation should be different. Obviously, if you're more risk adverse, maybe you go heavier gold or more, if you're more risky, maybe you go heavier gold, if you if you're in your 80s. And you may, you may need the cash, maybe you you don't do this and you hold cash.

Dustin Steffey: 30:30

Yeah, that's a really good call out in my opinion. So I want to make a statement real quick. I am not a financial advisor. So this information is purely for doing your own research before you invest in anything. I don't know if Patrick is a financial advisor. So I'm just making the disclaimer, I am not a financial advisor.

Patrick Yip: 30:53

Yeah, I have not either. And that's something I can 100% agree with. A lot of times people ask me, like, how much gold should I get? Well, it depends. I don't know your situation. If you need this money to pay your bills, then you have more important things to do than buy gold. If you have millions in the bank and you're sitting in cash, maybe maybe you should buy some gold. It really depends.

Dustin Steffey: 31:15

Yeah, so remember, smart investments are doing the research, really making sure you have the money your bills are paid first before you invest in anything because any investment is at risk. 100% agree. So Patrick, if one were to want to get a hold of you, what would be the best course of action to get a hold of you? Yeah, I would say

Patrick Yip: 31:39

first of all, definitely check out precious metals if you want the physical precious metals. So you want to basically buy gold, buy silver, have it delivered to your house, you could check out@mex.com That's a P M e x.com. If you want that vaulted solution, which is that new and modern way to purchase precious metals, check out one gold.com That's o n e gol d.com. And if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly or email me. My email is Patrick a pa t er IC k dot yep, that's why IP at APMEX APM x.com.

Dustin Steffey: 32:10

And for my listeners, I will have the links in the description so that way, it's easy to click and go to the sites all tried to have ATTREX information in there, too, on the guest profile page on chopping wood fires website, so that way you guys have medians to get a hold of Patrick. Patrick last thing as an investor, what is one key piece of information you want to leave the listeners with today?

Patrick Yip: 32:40

I would say find what you love and do that. Like I personally love precious metals. I mean, I was talking to my wife and you know, when I have enough money, it's debatable whether or not I'll leave here or not because I personally love doing what I what I do. And you know you find what you love, you do it you end up making more money than you probably ever thought because you're doing it in your spare time you're doing it in the evenings you're doing it in the weekends, you're gonna have that competitive advantage over others who are just doing it as a job. So find what you love and do that and you'll likely succeed.

Dustin Steffey: 33:10

I like it. Thank you, by the way for coming on. Thank you for discussing precious metals. We have not discussed that yet. So I think this is good all the way around.

Patrick Yip: 33:21

Great. Well, thanks again for having me on. Thank you